Curse

Kool Pajamas · Apr 23, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Mesmer skill idea.

Rend Energy {E}
(Inspiration?)
Cost 15 Cast 2sec Recharge 45 sec

Spell. Target foe loses all energy. For each point of energy foe loses, you take 15...5 damage.

Comment more on the idea. I'm sure the exact numbers are a bit imbalanced.

DaerunAxis · Apr 23, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

what if you hit an elementalist using +30e/-2regen equipment? ouchies

i guess it would create more strategy where one would have to guess the enemies energy level so that they dont end up killing themseleves... not bad!

Evilsod · Apr 23, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

For something that ridiculously powerful at E-draining you'd need to be taking at least 30 damage per energy. Theoretically you could drain an entire 49 energy at the start of a PvP fight and take about 300 damage, then be healed in 2 Healing Touches.

Teh Mighty Warrior · Apr 23, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

That is extremely OP. Combine that with e-surge + sig of weariness and you won't take much damage.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 23, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

This is the worst skill suggestion I have ever seen. Congratulations.

Kool Pajamas · Apr 23, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Well i said comment on the idea. That is saccing life for taking away energy. The numbers can be changed. If you think 30 damage is more appropriate then we can make it that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

This is the worst skill suggestion I have ever seen. Congratulations.

Well that was insightful. /sarcasm

You could at least say why or suggest a modification.

fiery · Apr 23, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Maybe lose half of the energy, and have a black out effect on you.

Kool Pajamas · Apr 23, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Another thought I had was that nearby allies would take the same amount of damage as you do.

Evilsod · Apr 24, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

I suppose you could have it so maybe you lose x energy and the target loses half that. Something like that anyway, necros deal with health loss/gain, mesmer with energy so it should be kept with energy.

It would mean if you lost 40 energy target loses 20. Maybe a bit ott but just a thought, would mean bringing in some serious E-Management though.

Other methods could be:

You lose 20-10 energy, target foe loses 10-20 energy.
Target foe loses xx% energy, you lose same amount or something.

First could be a bit overpowered, the 2nd seems slightly fairer though, would stop you drain a monk completely in 1 spell and give them more reason to learn how to use focus swapping effectively.

Rayne Nightfyre · Apr 24, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

No need to flame Kool's idea to hell, I like looking at people's ideas for Mesmer spells.

I like the idea of having a powerful E-drain spell, but this seems too powerful since it works like Rend Enchantments and the self damage could be catestrophic. But I do feel a spell is needed that steals more energy than your usual Signet of Weariness, Energy Burn/Surge, etc. Perhaps something like...

Ether Squelch
Elite Spell. Target foe loses 7..30 energy(too much?), and you lose 130..90% of the foe's remaining energy. This spell causes exhaustion.
Cost: 15 energy
Cast: 3 seconds
Recast: 45 seconds

Just an idea, it would follow the line of sacrificing that the Mesmer profession sometimes dabbles in (such as Blackout and Signet of Midnight). It would be a good follow up to Signet of Weariness and Energy Surge/Burn, plus would make using Mind Wrack more interesting. And I feel the word 'squelch' would fit nicely, since likely this spell would be the finishing blow in squelching the final points of the foe's energy.

(Again, this might be too overpowered.

)

lishi · Apr 24, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

losing all energy may be overpowerd wheterver are the drawback.

you can destroy a enemy build(like all elementalist build) and manage the work the drawback)

like ...

i can make a mesmer build with that skill and a all signet/5 energy skill.

maybe if the skill also have a couter

like 4 second casting time
if you receive damage while the skill is being activated the skill is disabled for 20 second
this will avoid balaced stance/mantra of resolve couter.

but still no i wont see that.

Draining a enemy energy should something more hard to press one button.(darn now aready too easy : is like press 3 buttons wait x second press those buttons again)

Hella Good · Apr 24, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

If it's something like:

5/2/20
Target foe loses 3... 12 nrg, you take 30...18 damage for each point of nrg lost that way.

It might be ok.

kryshnysh · Apr 24, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

This should probably be in domination, as it compares similarly to Energy Surge, Energy Burn, etc.

Here are my thoughts on what I will generally term an unconditional total energy denial.

If you hit the high energy weapon (potentially +30/-2) set of an opposing monk, you've shut them down a lot better than energy surge, etc. Throwing an enemy monk to -30 energy when on their regular weapon set means about 25 seconds of recharge before they can begin casting again without swapping back to a +30/-2 set.

To combat this, I would say raise the casting time to 3-4 (preferably 4) seconds. Then even with fast casting, a good monk has a good chance to swap to their lower end weapon sets while being baby-sat.

It also chains too well with spiking. Spike and use Rend Energy on the infuser to time just before the spike. The only counter I can see is spellbreaker on the infuser (as opposed to hex breaker for diversion/shame). Seems to be too few counters.

Maybe make this a hex. Delay its activation for 3 seconds (similar to Wastrel's Worry). Up its cost to 20-25 energy, and then cast time in the range of 2-3 seconds. You could then abolish the damage to the caster. This would allow for quick removal of the hex to stop the energy drain, and thus build in a conditional to the total energy wipe.

I think an unconditional complete energy denial is too powerful. Either make it conditional, or reduce the energy drained (say to 10-15-20 energy). Both ways I would favor the cost of the spell also increasing. High impact spells tend to cost more energy to limit the usefulness of the rest of the skill bar, this is to me a high impact spell.

Beat_Go_Stick · Apr 24, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Yeah, terrible idea. I can see it now, 2 W/Me's, Endure Pain, weapon of fortitude, shield that adds 45 health when enchanted, target the monks at the beginning of a GvG match, and BAM!

Question: Do Mesmers really need another e-drain skill? Seems to me like they already have enough of them to make a few different good e-drain builds...

Kool Pajamas · Apr 24, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

This should probably be in domination, as it compares similarly to Energy Surge, Energy Burn, etc.

Here are my thoughts on what I will generally term an unconditional total energy denial.

If you hit the high energy weapon (potentially +30/-2) set of an opposing monk, you've shut them down a lot better than energy surge, etc. Throwing an enemy monk to -30 energy when on their regular weapon set means about 25 seconds of recharge before they can begin casting again without swapping back to a +30/-2 set.

To combat this, I would say raise the casting time to 3-4 (preferably 4) seconds. Then even with fast casting, a good monk has a good chance to swap to their lower end weapon sets while being baby-sat.

It also chains too well with spiking. Spike and use Rend Energy on the infuser to time just before the spike. The only counter I can see is spellbreaker on the infuser (as opposed to hex breaker for diversion/shame). Seems to be too few counters.

Maybe make this a hex. Delay its activation for 3 seconds (similar to Wastrel's Worry). Up its cost to 20-25 energy, and then cast time in the range of 2-3 seconds. You could then abolish the damage to the caster. This would allow for quick removal of the hex to stop the energy drain, and thus build in a conditional to the total energy wipe.

I think an unconditional complete energy denial is too powerful. Either make it conditional, or reduce the energy drained (say to 10-15-20 energy). Both ways I would favor the cost of the spell also increasing. High impact spells tend to cost more energy to limit the usefulness of the rest of the skill bar, this is to me a high impact spell.

Taking out the damage to caster takes away from the original intent of the skill (health sac to destroy energy). However it sounds like a great idea for another new skill!

Revision to original skill:

Rend Energy {E}

Cost 25e Cast 3sec Recharge 45 sec

Spell. Target foe loses half max energy. For each point of energy foe loses, you take 35...15 damage and allies in the area take 15...5 damage.

Evilsod · Apr 24, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

Taking out the damage to caster takes away from the original intent of the skill (health sac to destroy energy). However it sounds like a great idea for another new skill!

Revision to original skill:

Rend Energy {E}

Cost 25e Cast 3sec Recharge 45 sec

Spell. Target foe loses half max energy. For each point of energy foe loses, you take 35...15 damage and allies in the area take 15...5 damage.

Allies taking damage would just mean stand in your own somewhere. I still think self-harm is beyond the mesmer class. Necros deal in self harm/health, Mesmers deal with energy.

The fairest 1 i can think of is.

Target foe loses x-y energy, you lose the 100- 50% of that amount.
It would be a good excuse for a signet build. Sacrificing your own energy to 'drain' a monk at the same time and using signets to manage the bugger all energy you'll have. It'd be sorta like a Signet of Weariness but targetted

Kool Pajamas · Apr 24, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Maybe make it a Necro Soul Reaping skill.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 24, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

You could at least say why or suggest a modification.

Come on... You're not an idiot (are you?). Does it really need explaning? Why would anyone use anything other than this skill when it makes your opponent lose all energy?! Don't make me bust out the bad idea stamp.

Ok... An actual explanation/adjustment: You shouldn't be able to unconditionally (losing health isn't a big deal when you can completely anihilate their monk's energy) drain any more than about 15 energy from a foe, and should have a recharge equal to energy surge (I figure energy surge drains 10, and it takes about 5 energy to heal the damage done).

Kool Pajamas · Apr 24, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Dont try to defend yourself. That is not a proper way to respond to any post ever.

I simply under estimated (er..would that be over?) the damage done to the caster. As you can see most of the other responses to the thread were much more civil with suggestions to make it better. Thats what this forum is all about.
And it seems many people missed this part "I'm sure the exact numbers are a bit imbalanced." I know it wasnt going to be balanced. I wanted to know about the idea about a powerful energy destroying spell that had the drawback of causing damage to the caster. If I simply said that and didnt put an example people would have either ignored it or asked for an example anyway.

Undivine · Apr 24, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

How about this... target is hexed and loses all energy. When the hex ends, he gains that amount back.

Adjusting the attribute could increase the duration or reduce the amount he gains back. Hex removal, obviously, triggers the gain prematurely.